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The myth of the Tool Bar PageRank

By theGypsy | August 23, 2010

Let’s put this to bed once and for all

Jeez… if there’s one thing that bugs me more than anything, is when seemingly sane people from apparently respected outlets, don’t seem to understand the fundamentals. Who cares when some blog in some far flung nether regions of the SEO makes a pedantic proclamation? Not I… Heck, I don’t even get worked up when the latest round of ‘SEO sucks’ (‘is dead’ ‘is easy’ insert ignorant analysis here). Nope, that no longer irks me.

But those that should know better, the places where new search geeks and clients lurk for learning, I hold them to a higher standard. Case and point; there is a big difference between (Google’s) PageRank, (PR) and ToolBar PageRank, (TBPR).

The myth of the Tool Bar PageRank

Now, as with past rants, this is not meant with malice, just a love for the game. Dear Titus, care of Site Pro News, stop confusing people with articles such as this one, it’s clearly madness of the highest order

A lesson in the basics….

First off my wandering web warriors let us look at one of the more common misconceptions in SEO today. For me, well… it’s not something that needs saying, but apparently I’m fooling myself. Here’s a simple break-down;

PageRank – is the original flavour of link analysis at Google which deals with a random walk over the web graph. Since its original inception it’s been mutated with elements such as Personalized PageRank and more… but still, let us consider the core concept. We do not know the current state, but we do know it is still an important element of how Google ranks pages.

ToolBar PageRank – that is the little green bar that is a finite (non-floating point) number on a scale of 1-10 which is oft updated and when it is, can be as much as 4 month old (a snapshot not organic). Oh, and the TBPR has also been known to be manually corrected with no ill affects on rankings (aka PR).

They really are two different animals and need to be understood as such. All they really share is a name. Beyond that, there is such disconnect that we really shouldn’t be considering them synonymous and speaking of them in the same breath.

 

Some school yard examples

Let’s look at some of the specifics from that article (and believe me, this is not unique, the confusion is everywhere). This fine fellow was discussing Google’s move to take the TBPR numbers out of Webmaster Tools which is fine, if the distinction had been made. It had not.

And so we get statements such as;

Regardless of what Google wants to happen, PageRank is still extremely important to anyone marketing on the web,”

Obtaining a high PR7 or PR8 simply means more business and revenues… regardless of how Google is or is not using PageRank.”

Total and full elimination of PageRank would be an honest start but it will still be an uphill, if not an unwinnable battle, for Google to fully eliminate link selling.”

Can you yet see the problem here? Actual PR, that stuff of link analysis lore, the mutated beast that still hums under the hood is alive and well. What Google was talking about was the fascination with TBPR, not PR. This is an important distinction unless we are saying that LINKS aren’t important anymore. Such lack of fundamental clarity makes ‘this thing or ours’ more confusing to others when it’s unnecessary.

And then we have;

For years Google has been downplaying the important of PageRank and states it’s only one of about 200 ranking factors”

No, they’ve actually downplayed the importance of TBPR, (even if they said PageRank) you see actual PR calculations might contain a dozen or more factors all on their own. It is not ONE of them…it is many.

Followed by;

I have even had many times when my PR drops but my actual SERPs rankings in Google goes up, mainly due to building related relevant backlinks.”

Erm, making my point here as the back links are creating greater PR and the PPR is likely playing into the anchor text scoring. The TBPR? Well, it’s a relatively minor metric.

So PageRank counts little towards your keyword rankings but it can’t be totally dismissed.”

No no no… in your own words we’ve just established that PR (and by extension PPR) do actually play a role. It is the ever useless TBPR that can’t be used as a serious indicator.

 

PageRank is dead!! Long live..??

Now, I won’t harp on that particular article, but it does very clearly show what is a VERY common misconception and confusion in the SEO world. Some people will go as far as to write that PR is dead, Google will stop using PR, PageRank is meaningless and other related oddities. The problem of course is that people are still talking about TBPR and PR in the same breath when in truth their distant cousins that only see each other on the holidays.

The reason all of this worries me is that if you are an SEO and can’t readily discuss Google without differentiating PR and TBPR, then what exactly are you thinking? I should expect that any SEO worth much of anything already understands the concepts related to PR and how important they are (in their evolved form) to modern IR. There should be no confusion in the vast difference that is the TBPR.

You would think so… but no.

 

Ok Dave, who gives a shit?

Well screw you too ok? (dammit, talking to myself again, verbose even). I care because the more these types of fundamental misconceptions persist, the farther we drift from legitimacy (as an industry). This is often something I’ve noticed even more in the larger publications in the market. Often times the editorial integrity is skewed, or goes unchecked as the editors are just that, editors, not search experts.

Let me put it another way, I’m bloody writing about it ain’t I? This is a fundamental area of SEO and there really shouldn’t be any confusion nor misconception. There simply is no serious correlation with Google doing away with TBPR numbers from WMT and how they’re ranking pages… Furthermore there’s little consistency, nor real relevance of the TBPR and the real PR, the one that we can’t readily ascertain.

For the record, this particular little mind muddle is everywhere. Ol Titus just happened to come across my screen as the proverbial straw to this camel’s back side. People using the vernacular PR to actually reference the TBPR can be seen in some of the highest profile blogs and publications.

We really need some clarity on this one peeps… so puhleaaaaze… let’s start being more specific – m’kay? There really IS a significant difference.

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  • The myth of the Tool Bar PageRank

Topics: Myths and Crap | 42 Comments »

  • http://www.justinparks.com Justin Parks

    I love my green pixel dust.

    This needed clarifying D. Its been and still is confusing to most folks (and I count myself among the many) and because PR is effectively “invisible” everyone naturally falls back to the green dust measurement as they can see it.

  • Robert

    Nice rant!

    Problem with most of SEO as I see it, is trying to explain to the clients just what they are getting. Then along comes Bullshit SEO and starts on the whole TBPR thing (something that is quite visible) and starts to tell them how that’s the be all and end all of SEO.

    Google should do us all a favour and drop those little green pixels from their Toolbar… but while it’s still something for us to gripe about I think they enjoy the fact that there are enough misconceptions going about to make our lives more difficult.

  • http://brettpringle.com Brett Pringle

    Really, it aint that difficult to grasp the difference between the 2, well for someone that actually knows what they are talking about. Was so hoping towards the end of last year with the rumour of Goog removing the feature from the TB it would disappear, but alas, no joy *sigh*

    Then again, how often do we see the famous “improve your PageRank” posts nowadays? Oh wait, that’s what my junkmail folder is for :)

  • TheGypsy

    @LinM… WTF kinda comment is that? Oh shit I know… it’s a LAZY one… sheesh

    @Barry – well it’s not THAT fucking hard to say mate… It is a serious bloody problem as some SEOs, from the way they tell it, seem to think PageRank itself is dead. Not ideal for the NOOBS coming up the pipe now is it? And for the record I don’t even have the Google ToolBar installed, so when I say PR.. I MEAN PR… hehe….

    @Justin… Exactly mate. I like the ‘invisible’ anaology. That’s about it. SEOs and webmasters have gotten into the habit and tend to forget about the REAL one, which is not generally advisable IMO.

    @Robert… amen brother. I do sometimes wish Google would just do away with the damned thing!

  • Ken Lyons

    Man, I’d comment spam this blog post, but you only have a PR of 4.

    Lamers….

    BTW, TBPR may in fact be extinct. :(

    A scheduled update (going by past updates) shoulda happened at the end of July, and nothing yet….

    So the whole issue may have solved itself.

    RIP = TBPR???

  • http://www.huomah.com theGypsy

    hehe…. I kinda thought the difference would be obvious. But the problem I see is that new folks coming into the SEO game can get confused pretty easily when we peeps are talking about them in the same breath. As for total scrapping of it… that would be nice!

  • http://twitter.com/Doc2626 Sheldon Campbell

    Amen, bro! Personally, I consider TBPR to be worse than useless! It’s like trying to judge how far along a pregnant women is, by a snapshot taken three months before.

  • http://linkmunki.blogspot.com/ LinkMünki

    Yeah, but we are sometimes very lazy little SEOs

  • http://twitter.com/badams Barry Adams

    But Toolbar PageRank is such a mouthful, you know. Whenever I refer to PageRank, I always mean Toolbar PageRank.

    That “mutated beast that still hums under the hood”, I refer to in more generic terms such as site relevance, popularity, etc. I never call it PageRank, because of the confusion with TBPR.

  • http://twitter.com/dmandalia Depesh Mandalia

    what makes me laugh is the number of so called marketing agencies that use TBPR and Alexa as a be-all gauge for a site’s worth for link building purposes…

  • Nleroy

    Great article David. I know day in and day out that TBPR doesn’t matter but even I get caught up in the hyper of ‘pr update’ and such. I my damnedest to look for the signs of a truly authoritative site when building back links and to only use the PR tool as an initial snap shot of a pages authority.

    Once again the article is fantastic and if so many more people would be open to the real value of ‘PR’ then I bet the amount of “SEO Spam” could drop significantly.

  • http://www.markrushworth.com Mark Rushworth

    lolz love it. my blog went from PPR4 to PPR0 for no apparent reason last month and i have suffered an INCREASE in traffic! go figure. Just goes to show that the toolbar means NOTHING – use DA and PA in Mozrank when building links now as they provide a more structured framework for ascertaining a sites ‘authority’

  • http://twitter.com/idietcola idietcola

    Man o man – Gypsy takes the buscuits! Love it – one of my pet peaves – when clients ask to improve their page rank – like yea thats goona make you rank higher!

    point in case mrk2 – do any radom google search – tell me if the rewsults you see are TBPR 4 at pos 1 TBPR 3 at pos 2 – TBPR 2 at pos 3 – me no think so!

    Surely TBPR will be the end of SEO – afterall each n every time we querry the TBPR – thats google’s database we are looking up – thus – if i as linkbuilder 1 – send list to linbuilder 2 – who send list to link builder 3 – who all querry the TBPR in top to bottom order… mmmm, mr big G – why are these ppl interested in PR – i mean who other than an “SEO-er” even knows this shite exists!??!?! no one.

    Sanity survives in this post Gypsy!

  • http://BestSellerAuthors.com Warren Whitlock

    nice rant for those who already know what’s what but if you want to help the hoards that don’t have a clue, add a succinct definition for newbies at the top.

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  • http://searchmarketingwisdom.com alanbleiweiss

    SiteProNews? Yeah – sad platform – gave up on them ages ago as far as offering consistently high quality content that newbies, site owners could rely upon.

    We’re in total agreement Dave, however I too need to admit that for brevity sake I have sometimes referred to TBPR as just “PageRank”, which only contributes to the confusion.

    The important thing for me is that I’ve never focused on the “importance” of TBPR, nor have I every worried about what the actual “PageRank” is for any of my sites, except when it comes to whether client sites are moving up in the click-to-conversion stats that matter. Because a number none of us will ever be privy to really doesn’t matter.

  • http://www.huomah.com theGypsy

    Well, I don’t generally read there, not even sure how I ended up on that piece at the time (wrote this like 6mo back, just found it).

    And yes, many folks do just use PR as a reference to TBPR, but I just worry about those that are newer in the biz and happen along to posts saying ‘PR is useless’ etc… When in fact, it is one of the cornerstones of the world’s biggest search engine. You know me, often a stickler for these smaller, but important distictions… ya know?

    As for that OTHER one.. I don’t even have the Google Toolbar installed…soooo… Don’t really have to worry about it much. hehe

  • http://wellontop.com/ Sean Weigold Ferguson

    I’m definitely guilty of not being clear about the differentiation between TBPR and PR. When I reference a discrete PageRank value (0-10), I am always referring to the number shown on the toolbar. I did this profusely in my post on PageRank. My assumption was that SEOs understood that there is no way to measure the actual PageRank of a page.

    You raise an excellent point about the misunderstandings that this can cause. I will make sure to be more careful in the future. Thanks David.

  • http://www.huomah.com theGypsy

    Hey Dave… no probs man. It was always a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but when it became things like ‘PageRank is dead’ or ‘PageRank is useless’ it just further outlined for me the oft ignorance of IR with SEOs. No self respecting search engineer would ever say that… though, they’d likely not be talking about TBPR what so ever. The risk becomes when new peeps enter into the SEO world and don’t clearly understand the diffference. I am big on teaching and the evolution of SEO and feel the need to keep our collective ducks in a row – ya know?

    And no, we can’t readily measure PageRank/Link Equity… but we can’t measure the weighting of a LOT of ranking factors to be honest. Hmmmm… we really need to start a SEO community Wiki for terminology, one that we can ALL agree on… would be handy

  • http://wellontop.com/ Sean Weigold Ferguson

    I’ve been playing with the idea of creating an organization/website/wiki/resource: SEO Professional Standards (SEOPS). I believe that our field could greatly benefit from having such a resource.

  • http://twitter.com/SEO_Doctor Gareth James

    Dear Mr Hairy

    Please advise to me where I can buy some of this pagerank stuff, tho you speak badly of it, I still want to buy some. At least if I have PR 2 I can sell some links on DP.

    Best

    :)

  • http://www.seoconsult.co.uk Steve

    I have seen even PR0 web sites ranking well compared to PR4 or PR5 (Tool Bar PR), Google visible pagerank is updated every few months… and real pagerank update is in background and nobody can have idea about the real pr of a website but i still like that green bar in google toolbar which display visible PR and i am sure more than 90% marketers talk about only that PR bar when they mention or talk about Page Rank

  • http://www.directorysubmissionservices.net Nick

    Great article David. I know day in and day out that TBPR doesn’t matter but even I get caught up in the hyper of ‘pr update’ and such. I my damnedest to look for the signs of a truly authoritative site when building back links and to only use the PR tool as an initial snap shot of a pages authority.
    I will make sure to be more careful in the future. Thanks David.

  • http://offwhitehat.com kingofsp

    Wait…you use GWT?

  • http://twitter.com/UlrichZA Ulrich Holtzhausen

    The way I understand it is that PR can not be measured in a scale of 1-10 since websites continually get more and more backlinks. In that sense, PR is invisible, I agree.

  • http://www.igetbraces.com Tom

    Page rank most definitely works in my favor….clients want it. I know how to get it. Its that simple. But personally I could care less about PR on my own sites as long as I am ranking well…I only care about organic traffic and adsense clicks. To hell with Page Rank!

  • http://www.2buildbacklinks.com/difference-between-toolbar-pagerank-and-real-pagerank.html Mark Collier

    Totally agree and I thought I would share similar information with my own audience: http://www.2buildbacklinks.com/difference-between-toolbar-pagerank-and-real-pagerank.html

  • Anonymous

    Then comes along and SEO in TBPR shit together (which is clearly visible) and begins to tell how is the alpha and omega of the SEO.

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  • Massey Nicholas

    “but we do know it is still an important element of how Google ranks pages.”

    It’s not that important. Are you trying to say that websites with no page rank can’t reach the top of google?

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    I my damnedest to look for the signs of a truly authoritative site when building back links and to only use the PR tool as an initial snap shot of a pages authority.

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    I think they enjoy the fact that there are enough misconceptions going about to make our lives more difficult. 

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    I think they enjoy the fact that there are enough misconceptions going about to make our lives more difficult. 

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Aikins/100000948365772 Tom Aikins

    So you’ve gone through this whole rant and not explained EXACTLY WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. Where can I find out this piece of information.

  • http://twitter.com/Optimal_Copy Helen Horrocks

    Totally agree with Barry. Even TBPR is too much of a mouthful. Can’t we call it TPR? I think everyone will agree we need more 3-letter-acronyms in the industry. It makes us sound more authoritative. In fact, lets stick an extra one on PR too. How about APR? Shit, banks got there first. CPR? Nah, too medical. Anyone else like RPR?

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